Why More Couples Are Going Open

Relationships aren't one-size-fits-all.

In this episode, we explore open relationships, polyamory, swinging, and other alternative relationship dynamics. Why are more people choosing these lifestyles? Can they actually work? What are the biggest misconceptions, and where do they often fall apart?

Transcript

Copy

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to Coffee and Cleavage. Welcome, guys. I'm Linny. I keep forgetting which camera to look at.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

This is your close-up and that's your close-up.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Okay. I haven't looked at that one one time. I haven't either. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

And I think I'm Claudia.

unknown 0:21

Cheers.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Cheers. And hello, Dax. Great to have you back again with the bag. Gary's been on vacation.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah, where's Gary?

SPEAKER_03 0:28

I know.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Gary, I think you're fired. I don't know. Gary's gonna have to beg for his job back. Well, welcome, Dax.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Well, what are we talking about today, girls?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

You know what? We wanted to talk about something that I think is very relevant in the world right now. Um, I think the world is further moving away from traditional and going more into alternative lifestyles and dating.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

So you I I would assume you mean like swinging multiple partners. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Have you uh girls ever met like people like this?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I can't confirm nor deny. I have met, I have met a couple like this. You have? Oh, tell tell us tell us about this couple.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Well, you know, they're very happily married. Okay. And they they like having another woman in the relationship. Hot.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

So they just bring in does is do they bring in men and women or just women?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Just women. No men. What a lucky guy. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Unless he also wants to bring in men and then Well, then that that's probably another topic.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

We'll do a different episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, we got we got some some things to un unwrap with that one. Yeah. Um, okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

My neighbors are swingers.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Really?

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And let me tell they're obsessed with it. Like obsess the guy wears like pineapple t-shirts. No. Yeah, they're obsessed with it. They go to that resort in Mexico.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

What? Oh, is it what is temptation?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, something like desire, temptation, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Pineapple t-shirts?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

They're obsessed with it. Like that all they do is talk and think about swinging.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

But they've been together for like 32 years or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

And this is just what they do.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, I think they've always done it. I mean, they they clearly demonstrate that this can work if it's done in a certain way.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

I think if it works for the couple, then it then it works. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I mean, go for it. Yeah. I feel like at least the swinger couples that I have met, they just seem like their marriage is so solid. Like, but I'm talking like even like true swinger couples, like they they truly swap. Like the girl goes with the guy, the guy goes with the girl, they're in the same room, you know, doing what they're doing, you know, but with together. And these people are so close, like they have such good relationships. Why is that? Just because they're getting laid more or like what's well don't you think that's eliminated the need for cheating?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah. I mean, they don't need to cheat anymore. So that's one relationship barrier that's gone.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

But what is the percentage of people who cheat that do it for the thrill of cheating and not getting caught versus I just need to feel something different every so often? Like I wonder what that statistic is. I'm very much into statistics. I noticed. Sorry, I'm making you work over here. No, I like it. But I think a lot like there are a lot of people, thrill of the kill. Like they want to know, number one, I still got it. Number two, look how far I can go without getting caught. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

But don't you think if someone even with a thrill of the kill has the ability to have more than one partner, they're gonna have less of a desire, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, because then you take the fun away from them.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah. You know? I mean, you know, I think it opens up the conversation of it's kind of like Amsterdam the Amsterdam debate. Because they allow legal prostitution, some legal drug use, they have eliminated a lot of crime. And that's that's that's that statistic I know is a proven thing. Like they they had prisons they were closing down for decades because they didn't have criminals to put them in.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

True.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So, you know, do you give people a little bit and they're like, okay, well, I'm good. I don't have to do the do the most anymore.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Same thing with this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

I've never done like a swingers like resort or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Like there's one, isn't there one in Jamaica too? There's a bunch. Yeah, a real popular one where they just actually did a lot of photo shoots there. Oh, really? Because i they're okay with nudity. So true, yeah. True. Like the um, what is it called, the paradise challenge? Yeah. I think they'd go there and that's where they have their photo shoots.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

That makes sense, yeah. Cause a lot of these places are very like no no. Yeah. No nudity. Because I think are all adult resorts swingers' resorts, or are there just resorts that are for adults without kids where there isn't swinging?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Well, I don't go to these. I don't know if you do or not. Um, I just can't imagine you're walking around and there's six people having sex uh in the lobby, you know. Like well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I don't think I think there's there designated areas? I have questions. Yeah, I have a lot of questions too. Like, can you be at a dinner and like you just start banging?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Like, maybe I should go to these one of these.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Maybe you should. It sounds like it could be up your alley.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

But don't you I think I would imagine with this topic there's a lot of misconceptions, right? Yes. Because the little bit of exposure I have had to this, these people do have boundaries and they do have rules. Like I see with you know little discussions I've had with my neighbors, they they don't just randomly run around with everybody.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Right. It's not a free-for-all.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

It's not a free-for-all. No, they're selective, they're selective, there's kind of a structure to it, you know, there's expectations, there's an understanding, there's a respect.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

You know, and I think a lot of people think it's like just this giant Playboy mansion party.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

I wonder if there's more respect in these types of relationships because there's just more being discussed at all times. Wants, needs, desires.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Well, you sound like you're a little bit of an expert on this too.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I am a little bit of an expert.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Oh, are you in that?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

I'm not in no, I'm not in the I'm not in the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

No, no, you and your husband.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

No, either your I have your insight on it. I've been to parties, right, where where this the or swapping is a thing. I don't swap. That that's if you guys are watching, please don't think I'm accessible because I'm very much not. Um but I've I've seen it and these couples, they're I'm telling you, they're like obsessed with each other.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Well, then that raises the question of is monogamy a social construct or is it just a preference?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I think we need monogamy, like we need religion, because I feel like if you remove religion, like let's say we all wake up tomorrow and something happens and we are all a hundred percent in the know that let's say God isn't real, religion's not real, nothing's real, the world would be up in shambles. Like some people don't know how to, yeah, there'd be chaos, like because people don't know how to live without the thought of like a God not existing, or what if I start doing bad things to people? Am I gonna go to hell? Like people need some sort of like social, yeah, you know, whatever, because because they'd go nuts. So I think monogamy could be very similar to that. Like people need rules, or they would just go traditional.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

So you think monogamy prevents anarchy, essentially, but you don't think it's a so you don't think it's a marriage requirement?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I I don't personally think it it should be a requirement, personally.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Lenny, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

I mean a marriage requirement.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, do you think monogamy is required for marriage, or do you think people just choose to be monogamous?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

I think people choose to be. Yeah. I don't think that is a requirement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Well I read something that there was like um the concept of marriage is like back in the day was to bring two roying ruling families and like royalty together to create one mighty family.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It's a business.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

It had nothing to do with love. Right. And I think I think that's where it got misconstrued a little bit. People started confusing love with marriage and commitment, and one has nothing to do with the other.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Well, look at just like having a wedding, right? It has absolutely nothing to do with love, I don't think. Like you start off by having to invite a bunch of people you haven't seen in years.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

And you probably won't see again. You won't see again.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Who knows how you're inviting them because your mom and your or your dad, you know, need you to invite them because they were invited to their kids' wedding, so now they feel, you know, entitled to bring them on. Then you book the venue, you're spending f God knows how much money. Then you gotta book you order flowers, which flowers could be tens of thousands of dollars. Then you gotta feed everyone. Yeah. Then you let's say you finally get to the wedding day, you have to hang out with all these people, and it has nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Like you're right. You're like hardly even you don't even really see a couple together hardly. You don't. How often do either of you hear this, though? When you hear about someone getting married, how often do you hear them go, Oh, I can't wait till it's over with? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Uh-huh. All the time.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

That's sad. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I think marriage is like the biggest, not marriage itself, but weddings are the biggest like social scam like we have all fallen into.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Well, it's called the wedding industry.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah. Cha-ching, cha-ching. Literally.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I my first marriage, I spent, I believe it was like $50,000 or $60,000 on the wedding. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

And you said your first, so now you're on to your second.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yes, I'm on to my second. Hopefully there's not a third, because I'm not doing a third. But my and I was twenty one, twenty-two years old, spending sixty thousand dollars. Like, do you know, like, if I put sixty thousand dollars away at twenty-one years old, like what that would have compounded into, like, just interest-wise, like, and I'm over here and and and and that worked out for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

So given your background and your sounds like you're a little bit of expertise, was that a monogamous marriage?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Ish?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Monogamish-ish.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Monogamish. I've heard this word, monogamish. Monogamish. I think I'm saying it wrong, but I think it's monogamish.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

So here's a question. Was that spearheaded by you or spearheaded by your partner?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Um I think more him, and then I was like, I kinda like this.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

So here, you know, why would some people you know, because you see like the swingers, like they're they're really into this stuff. Yeah. So how does some people see it as fun and something we should do, and why do other people see it as a threat?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Because I think people are are ultimately afraid that like let's say we're in a relationship and you know we're we're g m monogamous. What if one day you wake up and the person that I know you're being monogamous with is a better option for you than I am? And that is terrifying because I'm literally giving you permission to potentially find somebody better than me, and that's that's a threat. Like what what if you do like that person more and you guys really hit it off and you're like, you know what? I know we met in this type of you know situation, but I actually like you more than my own husband. Like you're eliminating giving an opportunity for that to even happen. That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Well, doesn't it go like that you want you want what you can't have? So maybe once people have it, they're like, Yeah, I'm I I'm glad I had it, but I'm good. Yeah. That's kind of the concept here, right? And that's why swinger open poly, whatever they call themselves, couples, they don't see it as a threat because they can have it at any time.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Have you had a threesome before?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I've had a couple. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Have you ever been in a threesome where like you're with the girl that you're having a threesome with, and the the third girl, the you know, the the third person, you've like really wanted to hook up with this person, then after the threesome's over, you're like Yeah, because some people, you know, they're just they're just not great at uh, you know, activity in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

So okay, but maybe it's disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

So now so now look at it like this like he hooks up with the girl he's been wanting to hook up with with his partner, right? He's able to see, wow, she wasn't shit. Good thing I have my wife, or good thing I have my my my girlfriend or whoever, whatever whatever the situation was for you. And let's say you weren't in a threesome situation and you cheated on your girlfriend or your wife, and then you're like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

I had bad sex and I broke up my relationship.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

And I ruined something really good. And I had and I didn't even get what I wanted out of this.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I guess I look at it like this. If I drive a BMW and I go test drive a Mercedes, I can now decide if I like the Mercedes or don't like the Mercedes. And often people do that and well, I like my car.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I'm not gonna trade it in. I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

And I wonder if that theory kind of works in this situation. Like, well, I tried it. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Like I I think so. Because imagine if you could only go for a test drive if you commit to getting rid of your first car, your your car that you're driving. You probably wouldn't go on the street. I want to go for a test drive. Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah. Yeah. So that's really good. That's a really good philosophy. I just came up with that. Yeah, that's I like that. That's really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Do you guys think the whole concept of open relationships are truly more common now, or is it just more visible because of social media and people are talking about it? Because I feel like, you know, well, I know my neighbors, but I feel like I open up Instagram and I see stuff all the time on.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Or is that just your algorithm because you're looking for it? Well, I think filthy, filthy boy dash. Wow, yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Because I said I had a threesome. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Now I'm not getting a call back to the case.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, listening to you. That's why it's up in your feed. Yeah, that's yeah, we know why it's in your feed.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

But I do feel like it's more I mean, you see it on even like like TV shows. Yeah. Love island, they're all hooking up with each other. Like this whole concept of open relationships is a thing more now, I think, than ever, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Why? I mean, you don't think our parents were doing it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I don't want to think about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

I don't want to think about that either, but I can't really imagine it. Like, I don't think my parents went to Swing Island over in Jamaica or whatever it's called.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I mean, I uh we you know, we've talked about this on previous episodes. Like, it's we're we're in swipe culture now. Like everybody's swiping left, swiping right. Like, there's websites now for like unicorns. Like a couple could like go on and find a unicorn.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

What would this website be? Is she really a unicorn?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

I don't know the website. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

How does a girl like go on there? I'm I qualify as a fucking unicorn.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I I mean you know, but if I was if I was single, I bet you'd make a good unicorn. I would be a great unicorn. I would be so great. Number one, I need attention at all times. Two people are giving it to me. Great. Number two, I'm bisexual. I get one of each. Great. Number three, I have a birthday coming up. That's two gifts. Also great. Like, I think I'd be a great unicorn.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah. Definitely. You definitely checked all the boxes. I do. Yeah. I mean, it again, it sounds like you have a little bit of experience with the topic. I mean, do you feel like you obviously have to have a certain amount of communication for something like this to work? Yeah. Very much.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I mean, do you think that's an important thing to I mean every relationship, like you you you can't even talk about communication with with any kind of relationship you need training?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Sure, but I I can't imagine a couple swaps and then they're done and they go home and they're just like watching TV, right? Like they probably talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Well, yeah, because that's what Boo goes back to saying, like the swingers that I know, like they're obsessed with it, they're obsessed with each other. They want to talk about it. They want to do like a little debrief because like you just did something so fun, right? Or like let's say it like went negative, like you need to talk about that shit.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Sure, but if it went bad, I guess that's true. So could it go bad? That's the question.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Absolutely. Yeah, we've talked about this on. We have, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Jealousy or you know, boundaries or do you think swingers get jealous? I'm sure, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

I would think so. Especially if it's something like if one of them crosses a line. Well with swingers. I'm thinking of a threesome. With swingers, I don't know. I what if you have a few years?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

How could you be watching someone plow your wife and you're plowing his wife and then all of a sudden someone's jealous? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's kind of an even exchange.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

It is, but what if what if she's enjoying your seeking it too much? Like more than my wife? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Or his wife or what do you define? They should be enjoying it. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, like different than when you're like, let's just say, like, I don't see you enjoying it when when I'm behind you.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

You enjoyed her more than me. Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

I can see how that caused jealousy, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

So you think the jealousy in that is a human response, or do you think it's something that you could overcome? Like, now imagine that you go home and you think your partner likes things that you didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

That has to be an insecurity before you walk into something, because to me, like if I saw my partner enjoying somebody and this is the life we've chosen, I would be happy they're enjoying somebody. But I'm also not a jealous person, right? But I don't think you could even get into the swinging discussion if you have an ounce of jealousy in you. Yeah. Like there's there's no way. Yeah. There's no way. But I wonder if if it that if that actually is a a conversation where like has a swinging situation ever happened and the person chooses their new person over their partner.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Well, you're monogamous. Were you ever jealous in a situation?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

And why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

I don't I just I don't have a jealous bone in my body. I don't know. I think you need to be very, very secure with yourself. Forget even your relationship. You are a unicorn, Claudia. I am unicorn. You are a unicorn. There's nothing I could you know what? I'm just, I think I'm at a point in my life where like I know what I bring to the table. And if my husband thinks there's someone better out there for him, babe, go. Like, I don't want you miserable with me. Like, if if you really think there's something better out there for you, number one, don't hold me back in my life. Let me go find happiness. And if you really think that there's someone better, well then I'm not your girl anyway. So what would I be jealous about? You're you're saving me from a shitty situation.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So you think emotional exclusivity is the priority over sexual exclusivity.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

I I I see your point there.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Because we're uh at the end of the day, at the very end of the day, we're we're very evolved uh monkeys, right? Like evolution. If you're looking at evolution's sake, like we're meant to have sex, we're meant to procreate, we're meant to do all those things. So having sex isn't a problem, but the mental part is the problem.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Well, you open up the whole debate of of religion, right? Right. Because now if you bring in religion and conventional things and you know, this goes against what a lot of people really believe in. But do they believe it because they're taught it?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Or do they believe it because they genuinely That's why I'm saying that's why I said earlier, like if you tell everybody tomorrow religion is fake, this is just a lie we've been told for two thousand years, there would be chaos because people would be like, Well, now I could cheat on my wife because there's no re repercussions when I get to heaven, because there is no heaven, so I might as well just be fucking everybody. I might you know, like I I think we we gotta fight the mental before the physical because everybody could have sex.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So do you think this is more about empowerment, escapism? Or why do people why do alternative relationships exist?

SPEAKER_03 19:39

What do you think, Clinton? Why do they exist? I think you know, being human, where you can get curious curiosity, I think. Curiosity maybe get kind of just you know, maybe bored and just want to kind of explore. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Boredom boredom cure. Again, it does it eliminate the possibility of cheating because now you can have it.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I mean, my neighbors are real happy. They love those pineapples and they love each other.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Okay, what is up with the pineapple thing?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

It's something with swingers. I uh uh the pineapple upside down means something.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

I have no idea what it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And I love pineapple upside down so it's not.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

I didn't know if that was like gay or if it was swing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

No, it's something that was swinging, something like and the the the the the star of like the There's a star, there's like a nautical star.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

If you put like a nautical star on like your front porch or door or something, yeah. Which is funny because like I think a lot of people like use the nautical star because like they're like supporting like sailors and like sailors.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And here comes these swinger couples coming on over. Yeah. Do you ever guys notice how like swingers, like real swingers, and I I know my neighbors, why do they wear such loud clothing? They were like, they want people to know like I'm flashy and I'm here and I'm really I dress like this because I'm ostental.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

They're a little brighter than you. Well, not right this second, but I normally dressed very swingers are very flashy.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I need to like redo my whole wardrobe. Maybe that's why couples are always like approaching me.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Well, they know you're a unicorn.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, well, I'm not available, ladies and gentlemen. All right, guys. Well, let us know, I guess, in the comments. Yeah. Interesting topic. Very interesting. Are you a swinger? Do you want to be a swinger?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Or Polly. Or Polly. Unicorn. Are you a unicorn?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

If you're a unicorn, can you just DM me? Claudia is interested in the unicorn.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Thank you for listening, Stax. Yeah, and thank you, Jacks. Cheers.